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frankl

Putting a team together

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I'm not a native coder, but willing to throw in help for the spanish and german language support.

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, frankl said:

Who is going to join me at the foundation stage? I need half a dozen good people. I think Rudolfi will join me. Who else?

I'm in Frank....why don't we put that organization Chart up, vote on it and start getting the Leads filled.   That will tell us if we have the needed support and interest.  The other pieces will start to fall into place as that happens and the Leads in turn start getting their teams established.   Sounds like you're starting to get a little anxious.  You've done a lot and you should be proud of what you've achieved so far.   Don't stress this will not happen overnight - all in good time.

Dan

Edited by Dan Cole
typo

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27 minutes ago, raiwa said:

I'm not a native coder, but willing to throw in help for the spanish and german language support.

Thank you Rainer.

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I can definitely fit on the shopowner's council - as I'm basically a shopowner with 15 years of experience with oscommerce. I have also experience with manufacturing process, workflow, optimization and industrial design because of my other work history so could help with all of those areas. Just let me know how can I help.

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Thanks to Frank and his Libre Draw software, here is a visual representation of the organization structure we've been kicking around.  

169822974_OrganizationStructure.png.0d8909a4df1aaa5ed1016fe31b22ad08.png

In general it's a team approach with the leads from each of the five disciplines, Management, Development, Marketing, Community and Operations forming the Project Team.  In addition there will be a Project Lead who is accountable to the Project Team.   The role of the Project Lead is to handle day to day issues and ensure that the Project Team meets regularly and is transparent and accountable to the community.  Terms of service, voting practices and other operating guidelines will need to be established but those issues can be ironed out by the Team and presented to the community for approval once the structure is agreed and the Lead positions are in place.

The idea at this point is to get a workable structure in place, the roles filled and the project moving.  It is not cast in stone and will no doubt be tweaked and fine tuned as we move forward.

Please let us have your feedback.  If the structure is generally supported we'll bring it to a vote.  Otherwise it is back to the drawing board.

Dan

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Dan Cole said:

Please let us have your feedback.  If the structure is generally supported we'll bring it to a vote.  Otherwise it is back to the drawing board.

I tell Frankl where I can/like to help as he requested. So, I hope he can 'fill' this in this or other ordinogram.

May be he or other can create a googledocs where he can write the people that say 'something' and the rest can check and tell Frankl (or other) that wants to be involved in 'X' place.

I think that there are more shopowners here with limited spare time and limited php coding experience with great ideas than professional coders with limited spare time and great ideas...

May be someone can/like to help in two fields. If one is filling, may be he/she can chose the one that are empty.

Frankly, I see in the ordinogram too much seats to be filled... but I would like to be wrong, of course...

Edited by Antonio García
spelling....

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If we're okay with the structure, the next step will be to list the positions, both for the 5 Leads,  which I would like to see us vote on, if there is more than one person interested, and a list where people can volunteer to be a team member for a particular team.   We'll get there one step at a time.

Dan

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Frankly, I see in the ordinogram too much seats to be filled...

Which is why it would be good if people can take more than one seat if possible.

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Man, I hope that being one of those who had disagreed and raised concerns earlier in this thread did not put a damper on anyone. If I did, I apologize and that was not my intention. People disagree, call each other assholes, and move on to have a beer later is totally a OK with me. I think this is not the first rodeo for most of us as we "grew" up with OSC--ya, I doubt anyone here is a millennials--and for sure if you had worked in software in a team environment, you should already be hardened by egos, power trips, and ideas being trashed and had learned how to move on. Also, in a real company, people come and people go, that's the way it is and you will just have to make sure that there's continuity.

The idea of just a "love fest" was totally in my mind when I wrote my thread earlier, but as I was seriously contemplating putting time in this effort, and had seen what had happened in the other forum, that was the reason for which I had chosen to put everything on the table. I think it is awesome that this forum is keeping full steam ahead and showing no sign of wavering!

You know, who am I to kidding that I will have the time to take up anything significant here after my regular responsibilities. This is a big task and it will take couple very heavy lifters' commitments to make it happen (apologize ahead again if I am offending anyone like me who's not gonna be a heavy lifter, but everyone of us here is needed to keep this community thriving so I for one is grateful). Heavy lifter I may not be, but I am eager to chip in whenever I can. @burt @frankl, since you 2 are fellow geeks, feel free to let me know when help is needed. I was an OSC shop partner, which had a great run for 8 yrs and was features on TV multiple times until Google Panda. Seeing our margin diminished due to cost I went back to consulting and now a token workabee in a L.A. big data marketing company (I now know a lot about internet marketing, machine learning, and data). I am looking forward to the chance to contribute some of the mods I had written for my shop into the community. I never did anything with them because I was waiting for the next OSC. You know, my dot com had not mess up one order for that 8 yrs because OSC was fully integrated in to an ERP with real-time data and everything other than picking was automated. I think I'd seen the big picture and I get what eCommerce operations need.

Yep, for sure, we are only doing this because we luv OSC<--happy now, luv fest?!

 

10 hours ago, Jack_MCS said:

Frank - I applaud your thought on this project. I think, in general, it is a good idea. But the thing that will make it work is what will prevent It from working, in my opinion. Do you recall the attempt by Chemo and Vger to create a new shop? The idea was solid and the talent was certainly there. But the two couldn't come to an agreement on the way things should be and it fell apart. Look at the thread about the structure you mentioned and you can see the same thing in the making. The thing that kept oscommerce going was that Harald had total control over the project.  Without that, this project will probably not succeed.

Don't get me wrong, I would love for it to work. And while I don't have the time to devote much to it, I will help if I can. But I think you, or someone, is going to have to take complete control of it if it has any chance of succeeding.  And when that is done, someone will be offended by having his "brilliant suggestion" refused and will leave the project. It will take a number of talented individuals to make this work but the strong ego's involved will be an issue. 

 

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@frankl i would not mind helping out with some translation to Danish

a small prayer in that regard is if we could reuse the files (only the language ones) from the same well known and dead cart that i think we all talk about

my aim/thought was that we could as well try and avoid having to start completely from scratch

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Humm....I'm not sure what to make of the relative silence on one of the first steps we need to take -- getting the organizational structure and Leads in place.   Given my involvement, I'm pretty sure it can't be so awesome that everyone is speechless.  Could it be that it's so far off the mark that no one knows where to start?

In any case we need your comments, good or bad, to move things forward.   Once we have some idea if this structure, or some other, is appropriate we'll put it to a vote and get moving.  

Please give this some thought and let us know what you think. 

Dan

 

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It may be a bit early to assign everyone to a slot in an org chart. We haven't even decided what software we are going to start with, or more than a vague idea of what the end result will be.

At this point in an Open Source project, I think we just need a Team Leader to herd the cats, and the rest of us can just be part of the team. @frankl seems to have volunteered himself to be the leader, at least to start with. The rest will fall into place when we have things better defined. We can always change the structure whenever it's not working the way we want it to.

Regards

Jim

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3 minutes ago, Kymation said:

It may be a bit early to assign everyone to a slot in an org chart. We haven't even decided what software we are going to start with, or more than a vague idea of what the end result will be.

I'm probably wrong and frequently am Jim but I'm totally of the opposite view.  I think we need the Teams in place, vested in and leading the process.  I don't think you get much buy in or commitment the other way around.  

Dan 

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I'm certainly not saying I'm always right. I was just putting that out there for discussion. I'm perfectly willing to be shown to be wrong on this, and I'll go along with what the others want in any case. I really want this project to succeed.

Regards

Jim

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Maybe it's a chicken or egg thing Jim.  I was just thinking that it would be better to have the Teams involved in the discussions, if not leading them.  I know when I'm asked to take on a task I always like to be actively involved in the process and the decisions taken.  It probably doesn't change the outcome but I've always found that more motivating.   

Dan 

 

 

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It seems like most of the people here are pretty involved. Of course we have expertise in different areas, so not everyone will have an opinion on every aspect of the project,

Normally (In a corporate project that is) the coders wouldn't be involved at this stage. They probably would not have been hired yet. There would be management, and a group of us* writing requirements documents, interface documents, and project plans. The rest of the positions would be filled out when that work was done and accepted.

*Yes, I spent more of my corporate career writing English than I did writing code. Engineers/programmers who can write documentation are fairly rare.

I have found that Open Source projects don't seem to work well with a conventional management structure. People are more motivated when they can work on what they want to. Probably the best example is the Linux kernel project. It has one lead and a loosely structured bunch of people working on what they want to. It seems to be fairly successful.

Regards

Jim

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I would love to volunteer somewhere in the shop owners council, but am unsure of a time commitment at the moment as I also have a business to run. Saying that most of us here have businesses.

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11 minutes ago, 14Steve14 said:

but am unsure of a time commitment

generally, I don't think anybody is going to be asked for hours of their time on the shopowners council.

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21 hours ago, Kymation said:

I have found that Open Source projects don't seem to work well with a conventional management structure. People are more motivated when they can work on what they want to. Probably the best example is the Linux kernel project. It has one lead and a loosely structured bunch of people working on what they want to. It seems to be fairly successful.

I'm not sure what to say Jim and I'm seldom lost for words.  Based on our initial posts (mainly ours) I thought it was pretty clear that we favored a Team approach and wanted to avoid having a single person with the keys.  I figure most, if not all of us, would generally agree with that given our past experience.  Perhaps I was mistaken.

In any case given the lack of replies it seems clear that it is either too early for this or there is a lack of interest so I'll stop thumping the tub for now. 

Dan

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It sounds like I was preaching to the choir again. Sorry if I offended anyone. I'm pretty blunt and straightforward, and that can come across as being argumentative. Please don't take anything I say personally.

Regards

Jim

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Dont get disheartened. As with any business/product/idea, you need a product first, then you build the team to run it. Get a roadmap sorted, then get the help you need to come up with the code and try to stick to the planned roadmap. There will be nothing worse if nothing happens as we all know. Then speak to people about what they want from the code, and make a few changes. Get the code out for testing, then you can think about improvements and other stuff. People will be interested once they can see something. People may even start converting older addons to work with what ever is produced,. Who knows what will happen, but first you need the product.

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