Jump to content
Kuuzu Forum

Recommended Posts

@Jack_MCS

Linux model dhould be employed. Anyone can do contributions, but only one instance decides what gets merged into official codebase.

If core is kept to a minimum, all great ideas can be implemented as plugin modules and shopowners will then decide what is better for them.

Another point is documentation. Technical specs and design documents should be done first, before any coding. All decisions should me made based on document and implementation should not deviate from it.

Rudolf

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whilst I dont have a lot of coding experience, and I have a shortage of time, I would like to participate so thanks for the invite. As a shop owner I have been using osc for too long, but business is booming and time is getting limited, but I will help if possible.

This may be what oscommerce needed, and once established I would like to think that links to the past will be broken. If one person can devote the time and energy to get this working it could succeed. I will wish everyone good luck, now, but the whole project may need it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Sorry for being late to the party.

First off, thanks to @frankl for his trust and seeing me as member worthy to be messaged.

New projects like this attempt here are not new. There have been split offs before from talented people that did not agree anymore how osC was going. ZenCart, osC max, CreLoaded and a few others I guess. Even though osC is not that high up the popularity ladder all those split off or fork projects failed to reach the same member/customer base or popularity as osC has. Which tells me that even though you try to make something better then osC it is no guarantee that it will work/pay out. Like Jack mentioned people tend to disagree on certain viewpoints and then it starts to crumble.

I am neither a coder, developer or shop owner, what I have done thus far was mostly for the fun and challenge. So I have nothing to gain nor to loose with osC as it stands at the moment. However I understand that the there is a need to go forward and change things can improve and grow. And that is what osC cannot offer at this time.

So long story short, I am in, no matter where this goes. I'll try to help where I can and as much my understanding of new code allows.

 

 

Edited by Tsimi
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep, couldn't agree more, who needs another cart. I mean, the market is tough, it's hard to make a killing like it once was as a consultant, you are under appreciated, and companies all want a lot more than they had paid for. Rewards are not guaranteed, may be a pad on the back by a few nice users if you are lucky. 

mm hmm...do it for fun and challenge it's a good way to go. So don't no body hold their breath for a release in the next six months...that's my guess.

 

On 4/30/2018 at 4:45 PM, Tsimi said:

Even though osC is not that high up the popularity ladder all those split off or fork projects failed to reach the same member/customer base or popularity as osC has. Which tells me that even though you try to make something better then osC it is no guarantee that it will work/pay out.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ZenCart had a lot of stores using it at one time.  Haven't checked it out in quite a while.  I was involved some with OscMax for a while, but it's a mess.  Max had some very sloppy code and they weren't willing to keep up with the current OSC codebase. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, let's look at this from another angle. If you were a business person (with no unusual computer skills), and you wanted to go online, what would you be looking for in a shop? Are you looking for a tool or appliance to help you sell, while consuming minimal time, or do you want a new hobby? Is it important to be totally free, or is your time worth something? You install on your own hosting, or rent a shop with a low monthly payment depending on your turnover (the shop would know what you're making)? Primarily WYSIWYG, or Wizard-led (with ability to edit configuration/layout files available)? What other features would have wide appeal? Maybe we should figure out our audience first, before trying to built the Perfect Shop.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Like I told a Google Adword consultant once, I want an one knob for my campaign setting, I pay them to help me make money and I don't need complexities. My washer and drier at home has two knobs each. I can't stand the ones with too many buttons. One knob commerce, that should be the goal.

Edited by clustersolutions
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking at all the posts, I am more and more starting to think that shop owners should be kept out of the "feature" discussion. For now.

Sounds crazy, doesn't it?

The reason is simple -- we are discussing features shop should have, but 99.9% of those features should be a plug-in or configuration tweak. Every shop is different and we will never agree on same path.

Instead, core design should be discussed and implemented in a way to allow maximum flexibility. Only then shop owners must be involved. Each feature can have a vote and appropriate plug-in can be implemented as part of standard distribution. Those who do not like it, are more than welcome to implement (or get someone to do it for them) in a different way. New shop design should easily accomodate it. Most used implementation will eventually become part of standard distro.

And, of course, adding a plug-in should not include any code changes. User will have an option to turn on/off certain plugin and tweak shop behavior to their needs via admin panel.

Rudolf

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let's get radical here:

  1. Required features: A shopping button. Remember the original Paypal button? Customer clicks a button, enters some information, and buys a product. We need that button (or equivalent). Everything else is extra.
  2. Your store needs more than that? Look through the Apps store in your Admin, find what you want, and click a button. Done.

There's your one-click store. Discuss.

Regards

Jim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Kymation said:

Let's get radical here:

  1. Required features: A shopping button. Remember the original Paypal button? Customer clicks a button, enters some information, and buys a product. We need that button (or equivalent). Everything else is extra. 
  2. Your store needs more than that? Look through the Apps store in your Admin, find what you want, and click a button. Done.

There's your one-click store. Discuss.

Regards

Jim

I have to disagree, Jim.

Yes, once customer decides to buy this is all that is needed.

But there is a lot more involved in getting them to your site (SEO optimisation of the site), help them to find what they are looking for and then convince them to buy.

In general, all is extra add-on. All one needs is a core and set of building blocks to create a shop they want. Much like a Lego kit

Rudolf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I vote for a create a system with a MINIMUM of features but with the MINIMUM that need at least the 80% of the shopowners.

We want to go to horizon, but now we are here, in this moment standing thinking about the course and chossing the backpack we will use.

No big backpack for the first steeps, I think.

My point of view about the 'minimum' (at least from 2.4):

- SEO (may be it is undertaked)
- ATTRIBUTES
- Contribution in zip ready to be installed
- Add in core VAT, EAN, dimenssions
- How handle extra fields in tables (in products, customers, etc)
- RGDP in core

... later we can work in:

- TEMPLATING
- New architecture (MVC, hexagonal, etc).
- Handle languages / config. in a easy way (the internationalization must be a good point in our side as woocommerce or shoptify don't support it natively)
- Listening to people about new improvements

An easy way is know that are the 20 contributions more donwloaded in OldCom. As we know the features of osCom, the more urgent is the ones most donwloaded (more or less).

Frankl (& the rest), do you think that it should be a good idea if I create a public google-docs where put these kind of requirements where everyone can read/add their personal thoughts?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I remember reading a post from HPDL about a lot of jQuery/javascript in the UI. OK Commerce gonna need a lot of that. We build intelligence...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@rudolfl  I think we're actually in agreement. Your Lego example is a good one. We need to give the shopowner a foundation brick and a selection of additional bricks to add to it. The shopowner can select which bricks they want to add to make a store that does just what they want it to and no more. This makes their store lean and fast, with no extraneous code to be maintained.

@Antonio García  Close, but I think that should be 100% of all shopowners. Give them a basic store to start with, and make it super easy to add more. Something like a Linux repository would be good. Find the Addon you want, click the button, done.

Any code that is not necessary for a given store is bloat. It will need to be maintained to keep it up with future changes to PHP and possibly to fix security bugs, yet it adds nothing that the shopowner wants. Given how hard it is to get shopowners to keep their software up to date, not to mention software that they don't use and don't want, this is a serious problem. Let's keep the problems to a minimum.

Regards

Jim

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Kymation said:

Close, but I think that should be 100% of all shopowners

Kymation: Linux (well, for example Ubuntu) make, as you said, a core that can be used for 80%  of the users. As you say, the rest 20% need to add a program for edit audio or edit video or another text editor. As you also say.

So we fs us are talking the same, no?

The holy grial of a box that can be updated without lossing compatibility is a goal that we need to get but the path should be long with a lot of discusion.

Edited by Antonio García
typo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Updating without conflicts is actually fairly easy. There are already software libraries for updating from a git repository. The key to managing this is to keep as little as possible in the core, and making everything else an independent app.

Apps live in their own directory and have their own file structure. They only call the public API for the core, so core updates have no effect on Apps, and App updates have no effect on core. Then shop owners can replace one App with a different one with the one-click installer, and install core and App updates, without worrying about conflicts.

Regards

Jim

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/6/2018 at 3:36 AM, Kymation said:

Any code that is not necessary for a given store is bloat. It will need to be maintained to keep it up with future changes to PHP and possibly to fix security bugs, yet it adds nothing that the shopowner wants. Given how hard it is to get shopowners to keep their software up to date, not to mention software that they don't use and don't want, this is a serious problem. Let's keep the problems to a minimum.

This. Keeping up with too much code is only going to cause headaches.

Far better to have a rock solid core, then a great app store (preferably built in) to make adding apps easy (and encouraging app developers to keep their code up to date).

Having said that I agree with Antonio when he says the store out of the box should be ready to sell, so basic addons are included i.e. Paypal, html emails, some shipping modules.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Linux has been sited here as an example. To be 100% clear, Linux is just the kernal (the core) of the operating system, as conceived and created by Linus Torvalds. When most people talk about Linux, be it Ubuntu, Suse, Red Hat, etc., they are talking about a distribution. A distribution is the kernal PLUS a collection of modules and apps (such as a graphical user interface, a browser, an email client, etc.). You can replace any of these modules or apps without touching the core.

The new cart can (and IMHO should) be built the same way. A very small, clean core, plus a collection of modules and apps. Include just enough modules to get the shop started, and offer a easy, one-click installation of any additional (or enhanced) modules.

If the core is written properly, it can be updated without changing any of the modules or apps. Likewise, any of the apps can be updated without touching the core.

Edited by ArtcoInc
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/9/2018 at 12:55 AM, Kymation said:

Updating without conflicts is actually fairly easy

The problem is not 'upload', the problem is 'upgrade' (when new functionalities are needed/added and you must implement them without alter the previous code - this situation is a dream...).

If you have a sistem with dependencies or it is not decoupling, you have a problem (thee problem of every day in a programmer...). :classic_laugh:

You need a good knowledge about architecture, a good praxis when code and a rigurous way to make testing everytime you add something.

For example:

https://www.butterfly.com.au/blog/website-development/clean-high-quality-code-a-guide-on-how-to-become-a-better-programmer

https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/best-practices/coding-standards/php/

I will put in another tread a proposition of HOW TO code (from the ground - the abstraction, later the implementation, later the relation with the environment)...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(and since we are throwing out thoughts ...)

In the current version of osC, when you install it, you get a store with sample products already included. The new shop owner has to delete all of these, and wonder why the product ID numbers now start as some high number (due to the id numbers used/wasted by the now deleted sample products). I suggest this:

When the person installs the new shop, they get the option of installing one of two or three 'sample' stores. One such sample store should be a clothing store, so the new shop owner can see how colors/sizes are addresses (and why are we still calling these attributes?). There would also be the option to install a virgin store, with no sample products.

Just a thought .....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, ArtcoInc said:

When the person installs the new sho

... he/she/it can DELETE and RESET the catalogue, customers, orders, etc in admin.

A single button that triggers an action that does it.

I vote for a 'unique' catalog (with beautifull models, the inevitable phones, some t-shirt and a few books, all very hipster).

Some taked from free stock photos, some made from mockups (books, t-shirt, CD's, etc).

May be I (with some brave scouts) can goto aventure!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ArtcoInc said:

In the current version of osC, when you install it, you get a store with sample products already included. The new shop owner has to delete all of these,

That's always been a minor annoyance, particularly for those with no SQL skills to do it in bulk. I do like the idea of installing no samples, or of having several suites of samples, but make sure there is some "one button" way to reset to empty (maybe reset the product ID, etc. to 1, if that bugs people). Either hide this very deep in admin, or have a confirmation dialog ("I just entered 1500 products by hand, and accidentally wiped it all out when I thought I was removing the last product! You guys suck!"). Speaking of which, something like Easy Populate (read a CSV file) should be built in, so people don't have to go through manual entry for their initial load.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×